Overpopulation, technology, and our current economic woes…?


I’ve been thinking a lot lately about our population and technology and how this effects our economy. Since the Industrial Revolution we’ve come a long way in de-humanizing labor. This puts people out of jobs. And, we reproduce like bunnies (we’re not the worst though lol). We have too many people…

Not just the picture your looking at the wrong wall.

Overpopulation in Western nations is not only not a problem but it’s UNDER population that’s a real possibility. Americans without immigration would actually have a population loss not gain. In third world nations yes they have overpopulation problems and if we want to solve that we just cut our food subsidies. We cannot maintain them much longer anyway. They’ve become totally dependent upon us and the first natural disaster we suffer will kill more people outside the US than inside if we continue an unsustainable food program. We also supply much of the AIDs drugs which again aggravates both the transmission of AIDs and food shortages. Might sound a bit cold but it’s a whole lot less cold than interfering with people’s right to procreate.

As for industrialization if we hadn’t replaced those workers with machines we’d exported those jobs overseas. So we have a net gain of jobs with automation not loss.

More so the idea is to shift humanity away from drudgery and turn us free on more intellectual and productive endeavors. Exploring the galaxy, science, arts, dreaming up new technologyies, designing new ways of doing things. Those who just want a simple job can maintain the machines, do retail and other such clean safe work. There is always a need for cowboys, linemen and outdoors work for those who prefer rugged work over an office.

More so the more free we are from simple labor the freer we are to return to subsistence farming if we so wish too. A person can live well on a few acres of land needing little from society if they do it right. That would not be possible if producing those few needs were labor intensive. That we are able to automate so much gives us that much more freedom to drop out and just work the land if we so desire. It helps increase our production where a small family can efficiently farm a couple acres and raise enough food to actually live on opposed to the several acres per family plus the interdependency on the community to survive you saw historically. All that punctuated by famine all too frequently.

If we are too survive as a species we have to spread out from this planet. Far too many ways for the world to come to a sudden end. The more we learn about Earth’s history the more we learn how the world can end on the turn of a dime. One day something will kill every human being on the Earth. No matter what we do, how hard we try it’s going to eventually happen. It might be tomorrow, might be 2,000 years from now might be a million years from now but it’s it’s going to happen. Every day we don’t have perm self sufficient colonies in space is a day we risk the end of our species. We colonize space the only limitation we have on population is how many planets we can colonize before we run into other sentient species who want the same planets. We are in the boondocks of our galaxy and billions of years behind in evolution compared to those species in the center. Our remoteness and the low density of stars is probably the only reason some other species hasn’t claimed Earth as home but in the neighboring systems there are likely plenty of species with whom we are racing. The longer it takes us to get out there the less impact our race will have on Galactic civilization if we survive at all. Today is a day to look forward not backwards. A day to stride confidently forward to meet what fate awaits us in the stars.

No I don’t think so, on average americans are having less children. I believe that there are a couple issues in which a society can help prevent these problems. Immigration and education. Educate your people and have them do the high paying high skill jobs, and allow immigrants the opportunity to work in the lower paid lower skilled jobs. Countries like china and japan that focus on math and science get and keep jobs much more than americans. Next taxes. Don’t give people money to move their production to other countries it just doesn’t make sense. And finally force people to save for retirement. Sometimes the government should be ruthless and let families take care of the elderly. Social Security is not meant to be a right it was meant to be a safety net for those who didn’t save enough, not for everyone.

I was just having that same thought the other day. Not the birth rate part, but the issue of having a constant need for more and more labor to cope with a growing population that can be sustained by less and less labor (proportionally speaking). I just wonder what that does to the economy, or economic theory in general.

As for the population controls, I think we need them simply to keep from overpopulating the Earth and stretching our resources too thin. This may be another reason, but not a necessary one.

I think you’re only looking at half the information. De-regulation has also caused this. Particularly of the banking industry. Beyond that, easing off on import tariffs has allowed for jobs to be sent overseas. Further, when you speak of “entitlements” are you including the massive subsidies that keep our gas prices so low? Yes, I said “low.” Even at 5 bucks a gallon, an additional 6 to 10 dollars of tax payer money are spent for every gallon you consume. Is this a socialist entitlement you’d be willing to give up? What if it meant lowering your taxes? The other half you’re not considering is the corporate influences over our government. Influence over policy has become a commodity that can be bought and sold. And, that needs to stop. Likewise, regulations to prevent “predatory shareholder” scenarios would do more to keep viable businesses and jobs here in the US rather than these “slash and burn” shareholders who are only intent on short term profits, dismantling viable companies, shipping their support services overseas, and then selling off the empty husks for parts. Surely you can see the value of regulating that kind of market behavior. Without any regulations, a “free market” will quickly be dominated by the most wealthy and influential industries. They’ll find a way, whether through governmental influence or brute force, to monopolize their industries and, ultimately, rule in place of a democratically elected government. The policies of the GOP currently lean in this direction, as their shill-laden membership attempts to push through legislation on the behalf of their corporate masters. But, the free market quickly becomes a ‘de-facto’ regulated market as some of the less scrupulous participants seek greater influence and squeeze out their competition. The end game of this scenario is a complete oligarchy.

Until WWII increases in productivity due to technology was used to reduce working hours instead of the number of jobs, and it was assumed in the 1950’s that that the trend would continue. But instead women joined the work force and the average number or hours worked per adult has increased not decreased and the standard work week remains at 40. We get 2 weeks of vacation a year and in Europe they get 5 and this seems to me a better solution if we have a surplus of labor
US born woman do not even have enough children to replace the population, the population growth is due to immigrants and their children.

Child limitations is about as unAmerican as one can get.
Concerning employment, there has been low unemployment many times, from 1984-2008 unemployment was arounf 5-6% and even then employment was not maximized. There are several ways to lower unemployment, take less money away from the private sector aka tax cuts, inforce immigration laws, create new innovations for production, trade laws that doesnt have a negative impact like it did during the great depression.

In a technologically sophisticated society there might be no need for jobs that are typically reserved for blue collars. This would displace workers out of industries that heavily rely on manual labor for commodity production. In 20/20 hindsight, anyone can see this as a recipe for class conflict and racial tension, because people from impovishered and uneducated backgrounds will target successful types from another group.

Child limitations sound cruel. LOL

Instead, maybe we should focus more on education, and improving our schools. Our education ranks among the lowest of Industrialized nations. Most jobs these days require some sort of Tertiary Education as we have replaced direct human labor with skilled labor.

With a poor secondary education how can we expect American citizens to go to college/university in order to satisfy the education needed for such jobs?

Our economy isn’t suffering because of American’s reproduction. There are many other factors involved. First and foremost, illegal immigration is causing obscene amounts of problems. Imagine how much money we’d save if we closed off the borders to those who enter illegally. Never mind that they also reproduce at a rate that is by far faster than Americans. In regards to working, technology has only created more work. Unions are the anti-business. If they went away, and the EPA stopped making it impossible to do business in the U.S., we might have more manufacturing jobs here. The green movement is continuing to cost us money and will only make things worse unless it’s stopped. Our government programs are hemorrhaging money and need revamped.

In other words, our country’s problems are about more than procreating.

You are missing a part of the picture here. US born citizens have a less than replacement lvl birthrate.
Its the immigration that the US accepts along with birthright citizenship where illegals have a kid in the usa. thats where the growth is coming from. A child limit wouldnt stop those.

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